people you're creating a health hazard a gun is a vitamin of safety. >> cenk: here's the health hazard--fox news channel. anyone who watches them seriously is doing themselves a great deal of disservice. they're doing this country a great deal of disservice, and i like how their owner is, what, we're in favor of spreading guns all across america like they're vitaminningvitamins? you might want to watch ee you tomorrow. [ ♪ music ♪ ] >> eliot: good evening i'm eliot spitzer and this is "viewpoint." it has been three days since the tragic shooting at sandy hook elementary school where 26 people were murdered including 20 innocent children. it was a heart wrenching weekend

of memorial services, a weekend where the entire nation wept for the 20 children whose lives were stolen away. yet another weekend where the country was forced to come to grips with a horrific gun tragedy. today the awful process of burying the child-victims began. snow with aer pozner and jack pinto were buried. last night in an interfaith memorial service for the victims, president obama delivered a touching eulogy, while at the same time saying it is necessary to take a hard look at our current gun laws. >> obama: in the coming weeks i'll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens from law enforcement to mental health professionals to parents and educators. in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this. because what choice do we have?

we can't accept events like this as routine. are we really prepared to say that we're powerless in the face of such carnage that the politics are too hard? are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is some how the price of our freedom? >> eliot: while the president remained vague, noticeably excluding the word "gun" from his speech, other legislators were more precise about what needs to be done. >> i'm going to introduce in the senate and the same bill will be introduced in the house a bill to ban assault weapons. >> i don't know anyone in the hunting or sporting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. i don't know anybody who needs 30 rounds in the clipping to hunting. i mean, these are things that need to be talked about.

>> eliot: when even senator joe manchin, who as received an endorsement as well as an a-rating from the nra is open to gun control it seems as though everyone now understands the need for gun control. but that's not the case. >> i wish to god she had an m-4 in her office locked up, so when she heard the gunfire she pulse it out and didn't have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands before she takes him out and takes his head off before he can till kill those precious kids. >> cenk: with me now who was with the president last night in newtown, thank you for joining us. >> glad to be with you governor. >> eliot: i was struck last night not only by the power of the president's words but his emotion. he seemed to be bursting with the emotion of a parent as much as any other parent might. how did he strike you when you were with him?

first of all he said to the governor and all the delegation that gathered that last friday was the worst day of his presidency, and first and foremost as a father with two daughters, as he eloquently stated to look and see what every parent--to every parent it's unspeakable and to know the carnage that took place and not to act that would be irresponsible. he was solemn. he was also inspirational. he said of the people of newtown that they inspired us with their acts of courage as you pointed out with the principle the teacher who put themselves in harms way to save school children.

these acts of courage from first responders from the police, everybody who arrived on the scene were just remarkable, and the way this small community know one another so well has come together demonstrates how you get through this. you said it when you and i were shooting before about the most unthinkable thing is for a parent to have to bury their child. it just started today with the burial of two of the children this has got to serve and i heard the clip where we're talking about will it be different this time? i believe it will. when you hear people like joe manchin speaking out as you indicated, and people all across the floor today were coming up to the members of the connecticut delegation saying on both sides of the aisle an understanding that we have to take action. not to act governor, i believe

makes this congress complicity. because we know this will happen again. as we've seen throughout too many of our cities, and with too much heartache and too many vigils like we experienced today, lowering the flags at half mass, having a moment of silence people's sincerity and surely their heartfelt thoughts to everyone in newtown are accepted and are wonderful. what is required of elected officials is action. now is the time to act. this is a match that cannot be postponed, and we are complicit congress is complicity if we don't take deeper action. i know it requires dialogue i know as your mayor of new york

city indicated restrictions on guns and i have an understanding that we can bring the nra along on this with universal background checks and with respect to assault clips that's the only way you can refer to the magazines that people are able to carry. they have no value in hunting. when terrorists are able to get a gun. when people on a terrorist list are able to get a gun come on, there are common steps that we can take as a congress and of course the mental health issues. bobby scott of virginia has an incredible bill talking about the violence and the president was also circumspect about this. it wasn't just the kids in new newtown, and you know this, governor with all the great cities across new york and my great city and the youth

violence that takes place almost daily because of gang and drug wars, and the senseless use of the actions where innocent children of victims are caught in cross fires. this has got to stop. every parent is crying out enough. >> eliot: congressman, i believe you were quoted today, and i hope i get this accurately, politics be damned. >> politics be damned. you're absolutely right. it is--that's the feeling i believe on the floor tonight too. there is a special order going on right now on the house--on the floor of the house of representatives, and i said there that in our--in the old chamber of the house was statue of the muse of history cleo, she sits there with pen and book recording how you act given your time in history. knowing that this time is fleeting. now is the time for us to act

and when i think our governor malloy has been just outstanding. he along with the president, he described, governor, the children last night, he was talking about how with the onset of winter, the winter soltice every time when winter approaches, when those gentle snowflakes begin to fall he'll think of these children, and every spring when the flowers bloom, and sandy hook and all across the state we'll remember how precious they are he was eloquent. >> eliot: governor malloy was eloquent and the imagery was exquisite. you're so right. now is the moment to act. there is a senseibility across both sides of the aisle that we must. how do you maintain that sense of urgency? as we move into january and

february, you know the rhythms of the house and the legislative process better than anybody certainly better than i do, how do you maintain that sense of inevitability, urgency and the moral righteousness. >> this is not going to go away. there are a couple of steps that we're going to move forward on aggressively. i say aggressively. when i say that, i mean with the sense of the fierce urgency that martin luther king jr. would say, because we have to respond now. there is a bill on gun clips or what we call assault clips that we can address immediately. i think there is unity here, and when the assault bans comes in universal background checks is something that the members of the nra support. these are common sense things,

and we will not let this go away. i believe the president is resolved in his commitment, you could tell, you could tell last night that this was different. and i know that this will also be part of the inauguration, part of the state of the union. he will not let this go, and neither will we. neither should parents all across this country. our veterans returning home, gun owners everybody there is an opportunity here governor, for us all to come together, i'm proud of the leadership of maloney, and mccarty in your state. >> eliot: both of them, maloney was sitting on our set last night discussing this very issue. and everyone knows carol carolyn mccarty lost families members and has been carrying this for

years. thank you for your passion and your leadership, and we would love to have you back as we follow this issue and your leadership as you move the congress forward. >> look forward to it, governor. >> eliot: thank you a severe of the shooting that alright, in 15 minutes we're going to do the young turks. i think the number one thing that viewers like about the young turks is that we're honest. they know that i'm not bs'ing them with some hidden agenda, actually supporting one party or the other. when the democrats are wrong, they know that i'm going to be the first one to call them out. they can question whether i'm right, but i think that the audience gets that this guy, to the best of his ability, is trying to look out for us.

jennifer > it's these "talking points" that the right have about "the heavy hand of government". i want to have that it. really. really! that you're gonna lay people off because now the government's going to help you fund your health care. really? i wanna be able to have

those conversations. not just to be confrontational, but to understand what the other side is saying. and you know, i'd like to arm our viewers with the ability to argue with their conservative uncle joe over the dinner table. >> eliot: politicians are mere politicians. the most powerful voice in favor of gun control are those whose lives have been effected by gun violence. today 34 videos of 34 victims all with one message. we demand a plan. including community outreach director for gabrielle giffords. >> as i was ducking, a bullet went into high wrist and into my chest and traveled down to my hip. when i laid perfectly still on the ground, i didn't know if the

gunman would come back. i need to know what our leaders are going to do to stop the gun violence. i demand a plan. >> eliot: thank you for coming on. there was something about the very controlled anger, dare i say, demand for a plan. it's so eloquent. tell us first what happened, and what you hope will happen now. >> well, like many others my life changed forever in just a fraction of a second. i was on the staff of gabrielle giffords, and we had just come out of a very contentious election, it was a narrow victory. this was three days after she was sworn in to the new term, and she was excited to meet her constituents. as community outreach coordinator i was setting up with gabe zimmerman, who lost his life that day. >> eliot: before you worked for

the congresswoman, you had done, what? >> i was a junior high teacher for 25 years. i spent my last two years in the high school, and very ironically ironically, the gunman, jared loughner attended the junior high where i taught. he was not in my classroom but many of kids knew him. he was not ill at that time. >> eliot: he hadn't manifested anything. but when you were shot, the mayhem the carnage the member of congress being devastatingly injured, at that moment as well everybody said now we will finally have gun control. >> i would phrase it now we will use common sense about who should have firearms. and i think that everyone can agree if we all came to the table there is not a single person who would say we should let criminals have guns, that we should let children have guns, and that we should have the

seriously mentally ill with guns. we would all agree with that. why can't we bring up the conversation? >> eliot: what happened? you were not in congress. you were not an elected member of congress. but you worked with gabby giffords, how does the energy, the passion that was evoked when the incident where you were shot dissipates so quickly so that nothing happens? >> you know, i--i can't really answer that question. it's hard to know. but it seems like we're all afraid to bring up this subject. now whether it is the nra leadership members of congress are afraid to address i don't know, but all i know is that recent polling done by a republican pollster indicated that 82% of gun owners totally agree that we should close the gun show loophole. with people behind this, so our

leaders need to get behind it as well. >> cenk: look, i've longed pleased and when i was in office i always said grassroots politics is where leadership comes from. those who are left usually just follow. that's why i think what you have done granted mike bloomberg we applaud his leadership in this, the a videos, the statements from people like you who have been victims. >> i had a powerful moment last night. i arrived in town, and i went directly to meet some of the other survivors both from tucson aurora milwaukee across the country at a dinner in a little restaurant. we were in a room by ourselves. the president's speech came on. all of us had been touched and deeply affected by the horrific tragedy on friday. as we sat there listening to the president's remarks, it was very familiar. i've heard those--many of those remarks when he came to tucson

and gave his eloquent speech. but as i looked around, i began to see shoulder shaking and everyone at the table had lost a child, a parent a friend, or had taken a bullet themselves. it was interesting to watch the president. >> i hope we're not being pollyanna by saying this time will be different. but you've made these videos, and they're poignant, i don't think any elected official could watch them and not say we have to do something. and congressman larsen saying the same thing. will go to washington? will you sit down with members who are on the other side of the issue to try to reason in your quiet and persuasive way? >> absolutely. and as a junior high teacher i can be not quiet as well. >> eliot: i didn't want to go there, i am not sure i wanted to be in your junior high class

maybe standing in the corner, perhaps. >> there is a passion in the room today after the press conference. all of us are willing to take that message where our children are being killed. our seniors are being killed. we are being killed in our places of worship. in our places of entertainment movie theaters, and just recently my daughter lives a mile from where the shooting took place in portland, oregon. we are no longer a safe society. this is a difficult question, but we are a smart society. we solve a lot of things. we need to take it apart and see what we can do. >> eliot: for you as a teacher for so many years school is a special place, a place of safety for kids, and this strikes to the core. >> i was a teacher when columbine happened. we immediately put in new drills and practiced them and one of my students asked me one time,

would you take a bullet for us, mrs. simon? i responded to them that as a mother i'm sure i would act with instinct. when i was in tears when i listened to what those heroic teachers did at sandy hook elementary. >> eliot: it shows the instinct and goodness and charity of those unbelievable people. >> there is a way that i believe people can get involved, and if they would go to demand a plan and sign on, but more importantly they need to call their members of congress. we need action. >> eliot: 24 hours a day and watch your videos. they're spectacular. pam simon, thank thank you for your courage and all the work you've done. change is coming, but what change needs to take place

>> eliot: after years of senseless slaughter it seems that our nation may have finally reached a tipping point. a diverse group of elected officials have demanded action, including many who heretofore

opposed gun control. but while revisiting an assault weapons ban is a good start what is effective gun policy in our country, and why have we failed so often to enact one. here jackie hilly and sam seder, host of ring of fire, welcome both of you to the show. jackie, let me start with you. it seems with unfortunate frequency we have this conversation after strategies like this. let's get the assault weapons ban in first place. do you think it will happen, and even if we do, is it enough? >> yes, i think it will happen, and the answer to the second question no, it is not enough. as to the first issue. i think having an assault weapons ban at this time everybody should know these are military weapons. they don't belong in civilian hands. they were designed for rapid fire killing as many people as possible. frankly, it defyies belief that

we should believe that they belong in civilian hands. >> eliot: sam, are we in a moment where we have defined expectations down so far? as jackie said we'll get some form of an assaults weapon ban reuped the one that was expired in 2004, we'll pat ourselves on the back but that is setting the bar so low. >> yeah, it does set the barlow. one of the basically ceiling stops around the supreme court. you know, back in 2010 the supreme court really made it difficult to have the type of comprehensive gun control that we need depending on the situation. but yeah i think if we can go further in terms of expanding background checks and going deeper into background checks where you can have--you can share information between

government agencies so we can know, for instance, if someone is receiving disability for a child or someone for mental reasons whether or not that would show up perhaps in a search for a gun permit. or you can also cover private sales or the gun shows. i mean, there is a lot to get done but ultimately the issue of the supreme court. >> eliot: look, we have the constitutional constraint of the second amendment. one way around that is bullets. i don't want to come at this from left field but senator moynahan years back said there is a tiny merit there are 300 million guns out there. australia bought them back. they had an enormous impact doing that. approaching the bullets is that one way. >> stock piling bullets, and the limitation in the way that ammunition is sold, the

consequences are the direct result of how the nra lobbied to change the law. it used to be that if you wanted ammunition you had to purchase it show i.d. there wasn't a background check but you were known. now we have selling over the internet. clearly the bill proposed this summer would change that, that's something that is important but i wanting to back a little bit to what sam was talking about. i want everyone to know what goes on in the background check. what's happening with it now we're checking 60% of the sales of the guns in this country and the other 40% whatever, we're not going to check those sales. >> eliot: explain why that 40% is private transactions, often what we call cash and carry out of the back of somebody's jeep or pickup truck. >> what we're doing is if you

purchase a gun from a gun dealer, and this happens at gun shows all the time, they're sitting at one table, and they have 68 glocks, then you purchase from a private seller who says they're a private seller and they also have 68 glocks we're leaving it up to the purchaser who says, hmm where do i want to go? if you're up to no good, you're not going to go to the one where you have to have a background check. every single sale of every gun should be back checked in this country. >> eliot: do you think there has to be a will? >> yes people are saying all the guns that end up in new york they're originating in places where there are weak gun laws, and we need to change it. >> eliot: you're right in a matter of substance. but sam you look skeptical. >> i'm a little skeptical. to a certain extent the issue of gun has left the realm of

imperative and it's now used as politics. there are fanatics who are show loathed to the idea from a political standpoint, nra members themselves when polled want more accountability want better gun responsible laws, but from a movement conservative perspective, the same reasons why the supreme court the five members found what they did in 2010 and earlier, it's the same--it's just another part of their perception of themselves. >> eliot: this is not--to use your word, imperialism matters. this is not where data and logic have dictated the outcome of our policy debate. on the other hand, jackie is right. this is an emotional issue and the emotions have issued. i want to mix issues that are unrelateed logically but we saw grover norquist finally slain.

they have both finally brought to their knees with the public saying we're done with you. i think that's why jackie, i agree with jackie, we will get something. but the question is whether we get an all thes weapons ban and background check that go beyond and don't just grandfather in all the existing problems? >> i think grandfather something a problem if you allow grandfather weapons to be sold, then you're really not taking them off the marketplace. i do think that when we reconsider the assault weapons ban, we have to learn from the mistakes we learned from the first time around. it has to be written as a good, effective bill, but the california model is an effective model. the old ban was set up on a two-test model, which is not a good way to do it. we have the willpower to do it, change it and write a good bill. >> eliot: i want to change gears

with just a moment or two left. one of the approaches that we have to think about are the companies that manufacture these guns and escape--using pension money that comes from our pension dollars public pensions, i think if the universities and public pension funds go to them and say change the way you operate because we indirectly own these companies the public would get riled up, does this make sense to you? >> from my perspective yes. any way you can attack on multiple fronts is good. there has to be an awareness that we as a public, a society areis increasingly paying the cost of this business model. >> eliot: we're complicity in the ownership. >> that's a model that came right out of the vietnam war and dow chemical. it's really good to bring the public's awareness of serberus,

they live here among us, and it's a great idea to let the public know if our pension funds and public monies are being invested in those businesses, we want to pull back and say no. >> eliot: and if we stay silent and do nothing we're complicity complicity{^l"^^}. i think we need to say stop, and shut them down. that's my sermon for tonight. jackie hilly, thank you so much for your insights tonight. and sam, stick around so we can delve deeper into the corrosive affect of the you know who's coming on to me now? you know the kind of guys who do like verse mortgage commercials? those types are coming on to me all the time now. >> she gets the comedians laughing... >> that's hilarious! >> ...and the thinkers thinking. >> okay, so there's wiggle-room in the ten commandments is what you're telling me. >> you would rather deal with ahmadinejad then me. >> absolutely! >> and so would mitt romeny. >> she's joy behar. >> and the best part is that current will let me say

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>> eliot: the almighty national rifle association would like you to believe that it is the formidable political force but is the nra's bark worse than its bite? mayor michael bloomberg says so. >> there is this myth that the nra is so powerful you go back to what happened back when the democrats lost after the assault weapons ban--i don't know that the two are connected then, but today the nra's power is so vastly overrated, the public when you do the polls they want to stop this carnage. and if 20 kids isn't enough to convince them, i don't know what would be. >> eliot: while the nra may speak for many in congress, the numbers speak for them after analyzing data, each district

partisan of how much money was spent and if the nra made an endorsement, the nra has virtually no impact on congressional elections. the nra endorsement so coveted by so many politicians is almost meaningless, nor does the money that the organization spend have deden straightible impact on the out ofoutcome of races. joining me now is professor of history at the university of michigan, and still with me sam seder, ring of fire. professor, do you agree with me that if we went right at them we could win? >> oh, definitely. lobbyists could be ignored or defeated without great consequences for the elected representative but it's the fear that the rival will get an

extra benefit, a little bit more money, maybe an angry constituency will turn against you, that causes i think elected representatives to pay too much attention to single issue lobbyist and the system is set up that they expect that there will always be somebody on the other side. and lobbyists only thrive when there aren't strong voices on the other side. >> eliot: what we're saying is complacency and cowardace. congressmen bow and bend over and are afraid to stand up and say-- >> i think for democratic politicians there is a genetic defensiveness on this issue and it over states the power that the nra had. i see this as another social

issue that right now there is a perception that it helps the right, but i think in four, maybe eight years down the road as they get further out from this it will change. we know the number of gun owners is shrinking. we know that they're buying an ever increasing number of guns. we've seen this in other social issues. you wouldn't hear the talk about choice, marriage equality that you heard this year in the presidential election. you wouldn't have heard that eight, even four years ago. i think we'll see it change on this issue as well. >> eliot: professor, let me ask you this, after the election a couple of weeks ago there has been soul searching on same-sex marriage and immigration where the republican party understands it's losing vast parts of the american public was it's loyal to a diminishing set of voices on one issue. will there be that reflection reflexion

on gun issues after this for the republican party. >> i think on the constituencies constituencies, i think some will rethink. americans should never give up on somebody just because they belong to another party. if you're a democrat in a republican district, and you seek out your congressmen staffers and say i'm concerned about this issue, i don't think it's a partisan issue i think you would be surprised how willing of an ear you'll get. it is possible that some people will rethink. a lot of people get a lot of campaign contributions from these gunmakers and they may be hard for persuade. >> eliot: it is a reasonably smaller pool of money when compared to the super pacs, but there was an emotional hesitancy

for democrats to be forthright on this issue and republicans like to hide behind i thinkry on the other side. this is a moment where the theology of the republican party both were for grover norquist on taxes and now la pierre on guns. >> maybe you're right. i may be too overly pessimistic. once the democrats basically left this fight which they basically retreated from it after al gore lost tennessee for some reason that was perceived to be the issue of the automatic weapons ban you saw the publics drift towards being satisfied with the gun laws as they are now. i believe we'll see a bigger change in the politics and we'll see the politicians as a lagging indicator hopefully this is something that the public has become energized enough so we start to see that change.

hopefully. >> eliot: the politicians are almost always lagging but i want to come back to the singular role that the president could play on any issue. the president changed the debate on same-sex marriage in june. he changed the debate on immigration in june. now i get a sense he's driven by a moral imperative having watched him last night. he feels this is going to define the moral fiber of his presidency. can he use his mega phone and speak to the nation in more forthright terms than in an eulogy and change the entire debate? >> yes, and i think president obama is the perfect person to make those arguments. he has the instincts of reaching out and being inclusive. we have to be careful of how we phrase things. there are people in this country who are hunters and who are attached to their guns for various reasons. they get concerned when they hear about gun control. somebody like the president could go to them and say look,

we don't want to take your hunting rifles away from you. we want semiautomatic military-style assault weapons off the streets. those are going to criminals to madmen, it's just not good for us as a society to have so many of them available. if obama does this, you know, you don't get elected president in this country if you're an extreme to one of the parties so i think he has the ability to make this argument. >> eliot: look, sam, i think that's right. i think it is important to remember that a majority of republicans and members of the nra do support background checks and limitations on the number of bullets that can be sold. senator manchin he said enough is enough. this just to the does work for our society. maybe we're at that tipping

point. >> maybe you're right. 80% also said don't touch our social security, and now we hear that the white house might propose a plan to cut it. i hope you're right. i hope president obama is situated to do this. nra members have been saying for literally five years that president obama was going to come and get their guns. they have seen no difference in their ability to purchase firearm and ammunition. i have no problem with hunters with sports men. but the access to high-power weaponry is obviously a problem in this country. something has to be done. >> eliot: professor very quickly, you wrote likewise a small number of corporations produce and market semiautomatic weapons for the market, why are they not named and shamed. can't we turn against the companies who profit from this and say we don't want to be investors with you and you have

to get out of this business. >> absolutely. i hope they will just moderate their business practices. you know, in britain a semiautomatic weapons have the gasgas and pump taken out so they turn into manual weapons. this could voluntarily make they will manual. the technical ability is there and i think we should be pressuring them to do that. >> eliot: i certainly hope that happens. serberus is a private hedge fund company, and they profit from this awful awful industry. shame on sereber us. juan coal and sam seder, thank you for joining us tonight. this charade over the so >>(narrator) bill press is on

current tv. >>liberal and proud of it. >>(narrator) unafraid, outspoken, and above all politically direct. >>we'll do our best to carry the flag from 6 to 9 every morning.

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